Suggestions for too-sensitive greed & insane armies

sarahnorthway
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:23 am

Suggestions for too-sensitive greed & insane armies

Postby sarahnorthway » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:42 am

What a refreshingly original game, compelling and surprisingly hard! But the mid-late game might need some tweaking. I've been failing to complete a level 4 project for hours I'm super frustrated by the game at this level, mainly from greed becoming impossible to control. Some suggestions to make it more fun:

- increase base awe / greed activation number (20) based on city prosperity
- make greed go down at medium danger level (is this a bug?)
- don't give bonuses on unfinished projects because it instantly causes greed when projects start
- make the anti-giant armies stop at the town's borders
- or weaker so they can't kill my giants in 3 flipping seconds
- or just have a giant sleep for 5 minutes if they kill it instead of losing the game and hours of work
- add a buffer between low/med/high danger so they don't switch over as soon as the line is crossed
- or increase the distance between low/med/high danger
- make awe slow the greed increase speed even if you don't have enough to stop it

Cheers & great game guys!

Yxklyx
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:50 pm

Re: Suggestions for too-sensitive greed & insane armies

Postby Yxklyx » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:23 pm

sarahnorthway wrote:What a refreshingly original game, compelling and surprisingly hard! But the mid-late game might need some tweaking. I've been failing to complete a level 4 project for hours I'm super frustrated by the game at this level, mainly from greed becoming impossible to control. Some suggestions to make it more fun:

- increase base awe / greed activation number (20) based on city prosperity

I agree that Awe is very weak especially as the resource numbers start increasing. Having a village level Awe modifier depending on village size would be a quick fix.

- make greed go down at medium danger level (is this a bug?)

I think this is a bug.

- don't give bonuses on unfinished projects because it instantly causes greed when projects start

I actually like this as it is. The game needs something like this to spice it up.

- make the anti-giant armies stop at the town's borders


I don't like this because then you wouldn't be able to destroy them without destroying precious resources.

- or weaker so they can't kill my giants in 3 flipping seconds
- or just have a giant sleep for 5 minutes if they kill it instead of losing the game and hours of work


Yeah, I hate this rule. When it happened the first time I was expecting that I would have to continue with one less giant. Now that would be interesting.

- add a buffer between low/med/high danger so they don't switch over as soon as the line is crossed
- or increase the distance between low/med/high danger
- make awe slow the greed increase speed even if you don't have enough to stop it

Very good point - Awe is useless at times. It should have SOME effect at all times.

Cheers & great game guys!


I've had great success so far keeping greed in check with Danger but I don't think I'm as far as you are.

Schippi
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:33 pm

Re: Suggestions for too-sensitive greed & insane armies

Postby Schippi » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:46 pm

armies of bigger cities should be big and impose a serious threat to the giants. you should have to retreat and heal them up with the ocean giant.
but i think there should just be an indicator at the armies menu (and a warning just like when wars start) to see that there is an army looking for your giants and how big it is to better judge if you can take them head on or take other actions. if a giant dies you always have the autosave.
playing on without a giant wouldnt make much sense lore wise with the whole era thing. each playthrough is the same planet after your giants slept for a couple of millenia and lost their power during that sleep.

regarding completing great projects: be patient and plan ahead what cities you have what ambassadors you take with which giant and maybe even wait for another city to finish their project so a giant who currently cant carry more can pick him up. it took me quite a while as well to find out some tricks, to have the patience to pause often and to unlock some stuff which helped me greatly. experiment with different builds and try it even if it looks like a bad choice on the first glance. there are a couple of threads here to highlight some tricks which could help you.

i could see awe get a small multiplier based on how many projects are completed (like 0.05 or 0.1 per project) but since cities expand frequently you have more tiles to place stuff with awe on them, so im not convinced yet.
awe also doesnt need to slow down greed because the more awe you get the faster you get from the greed zone to the awe-covered zone.
example: 2 cities at 150 / 270 food, one with 50awe, one without any. lets say they roughly gain 1 food per second. city without awe is in greed zone for 100seconds, while city with awe is only 50seconds in the greedgainzone. this is also disregarding the fact that the foodgain will slow down as the city gets near maximum which means city without awe will realisicly be even longer in the greedgainzone

edit:typos

sarahnorthway
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:23 am

Re: Suggestions for too-sensitive greed & insane armies

Postby sarahnorthway » Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:30 am

I finally finished a 4th level project. I was a lot more patient like Schippi suggested and had 3-4 embassadors on each giant (I was trying with just 2 before but I did get close - that could be a challenge!)

I pretty much had to use danger to do it. I had one giant constantly on "danger duty", ready to add hunt or predator to something every minute or so as it was gradually required. I still gained at least 4 accidental greed, but the city was growing fast (5 gold mines - bam!). It was frustrating when I miscounted and made a creature too dangerous. It would be great if you could remove aspects rather than having to start over on that tile.

It would have been super tedious to use awe instead since even with 60 awe you'd need an intermediary step. Replace onyx with gold mine, wait..., add onyx, wait..., replace onyx with gold mine, etc. So slow.

Yxklyx
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:50 pm

Re: Suggestions for too-sensitive greed & insane armies

Postby Yxklyx » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:29 am

How many cities did you have? I get Hunt and Predator right away but in the late game even with Danger keeping Greed in check, cities destroy each other and take out all the used resources - was going for 2000 tech and couldn't keep them from attacking each other. Trying to finish up the last few level 3 developments...

Blacksnake89
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:40 am

Re: Suggestions for too-sensitive greed & insane armies

Postby Blacksnake89 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:57 am

I think it should scale with the size of the cities existing resources something like 20% with the minimum being 20. So if a city has 300 food and 200 research the threshold is 60 for food and 40 for research. Awe should be tacked on to the threshold.

Also danger rather than stopping greed growth it should stop cities from invading each other while they're busy defending against predators with higher threat taking longer to deal with. So if a cities minimum danger threshold is 30 and its max is 50 it would take longer per point to decrease the higher it gets. Example it would take 4 seconds per point at 34 and 10 seconds per point at 45. This could have beneficial and detrimental effects. Beneficial if you want to keep a city busy for a long time by nearly maxing out danger but harmful if you need to add another predator to expand that same city.

Another idea could be to have predators attack armies when they get in the animals range allowing predators to be used to slow down or stop armies.

Kajikami
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:57 am

Re: Suggestions for too-sensitive greed & insane armies

Postby Kajikami » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:51 pm

Predators do attack armies when they get in range. If you have enough dangerous animals between two villages, they can completely kill off an army before it arrives at the other village.

Yxklyx
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:50 pm

Re: Suggestions for too-sensitive greed & insane armies

Postby Yxklyx » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:05 pm

What do people do with Barracks, Sacrificial Altar etc...?

Rabbit
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 5:53 am

Re: Suggestions for too-sensitive greed & insane armies

Postby Rabbit » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:08 pm

Personally I destroy barracks when they pop up, or reload my game. None of the specializations on the barracks scale into the later parts of the game. The school could have become a university instead, with Botanical Course you can get 1 tech for each natura which later on can become a lot of tech. Sacrificial altar can scale great if you get For the Gods, +2 food per awe. Turn that place into a mountain town and fill it with tea plants for a lot of free prosperity.

Unfortunately awe is a severely weak resource currently. It works very well as support for some of the powerful symbiosis (coal/panda) but doesn't add much on it's own. Every patch that gets you awe gets you even more of something else, causing a ton of greed anyway, so there's not much reason to aim for awe as a method of reducing greed growth. I wouldn't be upset to see awe changed around a bit, so that there's more incentive to seek it out, because in my high score games I've just been ignoring it completely except to fill out a symbiosis.

I think it would be interesting if awe affected how fast prosperity grows instead, raising the cap from a max of 1 prosperity/sec/resource to something higher. Awe would become an important part of time limited strategies. That's just an idea though I don't know how badly that could affect the game.

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JInFi
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Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Suggestions for too-sensitive greed & insane armies

Postby JInFi » Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:06 am

awe used to be op in the sense that A chain of Pear Trees & Strawberries (cause during beta, we could only get up to level 2 max), except no matter how much you make at a time, it would still cancel out the greed growth. i'm preeetty sure it was because of that, that Awe got a nerf.

but since we never really got to test the 120min properly, i'd say the Awe is mainly built around the 30-60min games, not the 120.


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