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Fishing Village?

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3ntf4k3d
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 10:05 am

Re: Fishing Village?

Post by 3ntf4k3d » Tue May 21, 2013 8:02 am

puke wrote:
M4st3rM1nd wrote:Lastly, and most frustrating, is you cant get enough tech to finish the lighthouse challenge -- and scraping up enough wealth for it is pretty difficult at level 2. Maybe you can do this with more fish unlocked at level 3 or something, but it isnt possible to get a pure fish world to supply the 50 tech for a lighthouse at level 2.
Using fishing villages isn't that hard if you have figured out a good setup. I managed to get 5k points @ 6 cities in one of my earlier games without using anything past tier II fishes:

Code: Select all

C	C	C	C	.	2E	1E	.	5D	7D	6D	.	3E	4E	.	C	C	C	C
C -> City
E -> Exotic animal
D -> Domestic animal
. -> Empty Space

You first apply the E's from 1&2 counterclockwise around the world. This is enough to finish the first harbour challenge in all cities. Then you apply 3&4 in the same manner and add the makreles between the cities. Once the lighthouse challenge starts, you convert E1 and E3 into Parrot Fishes via Herd Aspect (not sure if you also need E2 and E4).

If you use angler fishes and sharks, you can even fulfill the island quests, but you must be extremely careful. The main problem with fishing villages is actually the huge ressource / greed spikes from lighthouse & island projects - if you do not change the map setup to "buffer" them, your world can easily decent into an endless spiral of archipelago wars.

M4st3rM1nd
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 7:43 pm
Location: Alphen aan den Rijn

Re: Fishing Village?

Post by M4st3rM1nd » Tue May 21, 2013 9:49 am

puke wrote:First, you cant have a desert town on a pure fishing map. I tried to make a mountain & desert, site a town there, and then dig oceans. It automatically converted the desert town to a forest town. This is a real bummer as the desert ambassadors give some of the better animal buffs.
If you put a mountain on both sides and have a lil' dessert in the middle of atleast 4 spaces you can have a dessert village. But yeh it needs to be bigger than the others. If you have more time you could start out by making some dessert civs to get the first few ambassadors and smash them and start a fishing world after that.

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TheGodfather
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 4:03 pm
Location: Vienna

Re: Fishing Village?

Post by TheGodfather » Tue May 21, 2013 7:08 pm

puke wrote:
First, you cant have a desert town on a pure fishing map. I tried to make a mountain & desert, site a town there, and then dig oceans. It automatically converted the desert town to a forest town. This is a real bummer as the desert ambassadors give some of the better animal buffs.
You can still have a desert village, if you raise two mountains (and let at least 4 tiles be desert in between) because mountains "cut off" the wetness of the ground.

EDIT: Whoops, didnt see that this was already answered. Disregard my post.

puke
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 11:31 pm

Re: Fishing Village?

Post by puke » Tue May 21, 2013 11:59 pm

3ntf4k3d wrote:
puke wrote:
M4st3rM1nd wrote:Lastly, and most frustrating, is you cant get enough tech to finish the lighthouse challenge -- and scraping up enough wealth for it is pretty difficult at level 2. Maybe you can do this with more fish unlocked at level 3 or something, but it isnt possible to get a pure fish world to supply the 50 tech for a lighthouse at level 2.
Using fishing villages isn't that hard if you have figured out a good setup. I managed to get 5k points @ 6 cities in one of my earlier games without using anything past tier II fishes:

Code: Select all

C	C	C	C	.	2E	1E	.	5D	7D	6D	.	3E	4E	.	C	C	C	C
C -> City
E -> Exotic animal
D -> Domestic animal
. -> Empty Space

You first apply the E's from 1&2 counterclockwise around the world. This is enough to finish the first harbour challenge in all cities. Then you apply 3&4 in the same manner and add the makreles between the cities. Once the lighthouse challenge starts, you convert E1 and E3 into Parrot Fishes via Herd Aspect (not sure if you also need E2 and E4).

If you use angler fishes and sharks, you can even fulfill the island quests, but you must be extremely careful. The main problem with fishing villages is actually the huge ressource / greed spikes from lighthouse & island projects - if you do not change the map setup to "buffer" them, your world can easily decent into an endless spiral of archipelago wars.
I dont have access to sharks yet, but I'm on level 3 now so I have some more options. But let me get this right:

you have 11 ocean tiles between cities, and are leaving four of those empty? Why empty?

Do you add any predatory fish (bass) for danger?

When I did this on a 60 minute game, greed kicked my but. By the end game, i was trying my best to keep the high producing villiages alive and to preserve my six-warmark village to get that achievement. no mean trick, since my giants were under constant assault. Big relief when the timer expired.

the setup was two full sized oceans between each villiage for four fishing villages and one undersized spot where I stuck a desert town between mountains (yes, I know you can do that, my point was you cant have a coastal desert like the Sinai or San Diego). It was slightly too much space in each ocean -- but only slightly.

I filled each alternating double-plot of ocean with domestic for huge food, and with exotic for moderate wealth. So 4 plots village, 18 plots mackrel, 4 plots village, 18 plots exotic fish (clown?). I had barely enough wealth to make a lighthouse -- I could have done it maybe if I sacrificed the food, but then I would not have had the food. And I dont think I could have gotten the tech at all -- maybe by sacrificing all other resources to get tech synergies, but then the other requirements would have failed.

I'm trying it again, this time I have 120 minutes and a few other unlocks. I've built a swath of desert to prepopulate a few ambassadors as someone suggested, and I'll flood them out after I have maybe four.

M4st3rM1nd
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 7:43 pm
Location: Alphen aan den Rijn

Re: Fishing Village?

Post by M4st3rM1nd » Wed May 22, 2013 12:32 am

I'm currently rolling a 120 min game with only islands. I started off by making 2 islands (1 swamp and 1 forest) and 2 deserts. I first got 2 desert amb on both forest and swamp, a swamp amb on the water and a forest on the stone giant. After having all 6 easy ambassadors I smash the deserts and make a full map of islands. I like having exactly 6 Islands thou I could've placed them a lil' bit more evenly divided.
http://puu.sh/2YoIm.jpg

To receive maximum potential I use these ambassadors
S = swamp, F = forest, D = desert, R = random (doesn't matter)

Water S/S/S/R
U need 1 swamp 3 any to create superior plants
U need 3 swamp 1 any to create sublime herd aspect

Swamp D/D/S/R
U need 1 desert + 1 swamp + 2 any for superior animals
U need 2 desert and 2 any for sublime predator aspect

Mountain F/F/R/R
U need 2 forest and 2 any for sublime exotic aspect

Forest D/D/F/R
U need 2 desert and 2 any for sublime hunt aspect
U need 1 desert + forest and 2 any for sublime fertility

Note: fertility is not mandatory but I use it alot!
Note2: Use predator and hunt aspects to keep danger in the middle so you can keep spamming fish! :D

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TheGodfather
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 4:03 pm
Location: Vienna

Re: Fishing Village?

Post by TheGodfather » Wed May 22, 2013 3:23 am

This archipelago stragey of yours, M4st3rM1nd, got me thinking. So I started counting, doing a little math and terraforming.

So, theoretically, it would be possible to have 10 village à 4 tiles and 10 oceans à 6 tiles (just recently discovered that you can reduce the ocean to a size of 6 tiles). Since a planet consists of 100 tiles:
10*4 + 10*6 = 100.
However, it is not possible to close the circle, because the rock giant, when reducing the last ocean to 6 tiles, simultaneously erases the first ocean completely:

http://abload.de/img/maximumb0smq.png

So, we continue to calculate with a maximum of 9 villages (and at the same time a maximum of 9 oceans):
9*4 + 9*6 = 90. 10 left, so still not good enough, so lets increase the ocean to 7 tiles --> 99 tiles in use meaning we can have one ocean with 8 tiles, scratch that, again circle problem: One forest needs to have 5 tiles:

http://abload.de/img/222730_2013-05-22_000osusj.png

Could you actually give this a try, MM? (sorry for abbreviating, but your Nick is rather difficult to type :D) Or do you think I'd be too less ocean for another prosperity record? I'd do it myself, but I'm stilling missing like 13 achievements... And I think you need all tier 3 animals for it, right?
I'll attach you the safegame, if you want to do it but skip the terraforming^^
Attachments
Archipelago.rsf
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puke
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 11:31 pm

Re: Fishing Village?

Post by puke » Wed May 22, 2013 6:49 pm

Wow, I totally rocked this using 3ntf4k3d's method. Having access to a 120 minute game and tier-3 upgrades made all the difference.

I ran three desert towns until I had all the upgrades I needed. Then wiped them out for more ocean. Had six villages in the end, there was room for a seventh but I think there was too much danger for the nomads to settle there.

I filled the empty spaces that were not taken by projects with additional fish to make extra money or research, Two fully upgraded Angler fish interspersed with Mackerel hit the research requirement with no problem.

I didnt use any Tuna or Marlin at all, and ended the game with six fully upgraded island towns.

The hardest part was keeping them from destroying each other. I wouldnt have bothered except that I worried that I could not build up the same levels of prosperity if some were wiped out, and I wanted to maintain the warmarks for achievements.

Balancing danger was crucial for this, to keep the towns from attacking giants. They still warred with each other, but in the early game armies would be crippled by crossing the high-danger oceans. In the late game, armies were often 1000-1500 strong and the 100-150 danger in the oceans wasnt enough to take a bite out of them. town strength and defense got worn down through generations of defensive fighting. Took some careful work with giants in the last 5 minutes or so.

In the end, I mopped up all the remaining 2nd tier achievement that I didnt have already (about 1/2) and almost all of the 3rd tier achievements excepting the ones that required plants/minerals, or desert/mountains, or super-high research in individual towns.

Hit the highest levels of prosperity, got the 12 warmark thing, AND had three villages that filled the "peaceful" requirement.

M4st3rM1nd
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 7:43 pm
Location: Alphen aan den Rijn

Re: Fishing Village?

Post by M4st3rM1nd » Wed May 22, 2013 7:22 pm

TheGodfather wrote:One forest needs to have 5 tiles:
I do not like this idea. I rather have a ocean tile more. The reason you want island with exactly 4 spaces is that you force the village to go for ocean buildings (dock, harbor, lighthouse, island) but if you have one tile forest, those idiots my start deciding to build a granary! A GRANARY I tell u! (darn humans)

Also I already ran in to difficulties with borders touching each-other on my 6 island map (now it wasn't completely evenly divided,...). From what I can remember no challenge asks your for more than 6 prosperous cities on one map so having 6 island in the end is what I think is optimal (one challenge I completed using this was having 500 prosperity on 6 villages at the same time. see http://wiki.reusgame.com/index.php?title=Unlocks for more info)

One more risk is that the lighthouse challenge requires the left and right village of it to have at least 100 gold and 100 food. While this doesn't seem like a problem if you don't have a neighbor to your right you can't complete it :( So you need to do even more simultaneous micro-management

Also borders don't have to touch to be beneficial. The nice thing about animals (especially mackerel) is that they have a range. So having one next to the border still gives you benefits. Also one next to your border might affect and boost the fish of those inside your border.

One thing you could try with 9 villages is to get a very fast food bonus if you are lucky on harbors with global mackerel bonus. I unfortunately only had one of those. But if you manage to get three you can get insane amounts of food in a very short time.

The reason the desert start is necessary is because you need hunt or predator aspects (preferably both) to be able to constantly increase danger where needed. Placing a boosted mackerel inside a village sometimes gives over 100 food increase!!! So danger is mandatory.
TheGodfather wrote:Could you actually give this a try, MM? (sorry for abbreviating
NP mate, it's actually MasterMind spelled with digits for vowels (a = 4, e = 3, etc.)
I'm willing to give it a try thou, seems fun.
What do you want me to try exactly with the 9 villages? A high score or just insanely high food?

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TheGodfather
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 4:03 pm
Location: Vienna

Re: Fishing Village?

Post by TheGodfather » Wed May 22, 2013 8:37 pm

Well, the thing is, the game does not let you have one ocean with 8 tiles. Because when you are closing the circle, it only possible to have a 5 or 3 forest tiles :S. Try it out for yourself if you want. I cant really describe it properly...

And yeah, I was thinking if you could manage to do a 10k+ Properity record with 9 villages... Or do you think, 9 villages are not really managable?

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