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Top Score Strategies

kobun
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 1:04 am

Re: Top Score Strategies

Post by kobun » Sat May 25, 2013 2:41 am

Dunam wrote:I almost never destroy cities, but projects frequently. I just thought 7 villages was enough and I didn't need a 8th anymore.
what's a good way to destroy a project while leaving a town intact? both earthquake and muck bomb affect an area so....

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Dunam
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Re: Top Score Strategies

Post by Dunam » Sat May 25, 2013 4:25 am

Muck bombs. They do reduced damage against villages, so feel free to hit the village and the project. Unless it's a VERY new city, or was just damaged by a war, it'll easily survive.

If it's a fairly new village, you won't likely have developed the area around it very far, so you can easily muckbomb it's surrounding area. It takes 2 muck bombs to destroy most resources anyways.

If you upgrade a muck bomb it becomes a little more difficult/ costly, but by that time, you certainly won't destroy villages in one go with it (ussually takes about 4-8)

coanda
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:46 am

Re: Top Score Strategies

Post by coanda » Sat May 25, 2013 5:41 am

Also, water projects are more easily destroyed. For example, launching a create-forest ability which covers them cancels the project even though (being an ocean tile) a forest isn't actually created there.

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VDZ
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Re: Top Score Strategies

Post by VDZ » Sat May 25, 2013 1:47 pm

I never did it on purpose (though once by accident), but can't you just use Raise Mountain on the village and the project at the same time? The project is destroyed as soon as it receives any damage, and the village prevents the mountain from being created. Stop doing it after 1 damage, and you have a barely damaged city and a destroyed project.

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VDZ
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Re: Top Score Strategies

Post by VDZ » Sat May 25, 2013 6:21 pm

Responding to post in Top Score thread:
smithay wrote:That's an impressive score vdz, especially with only half the unlocks.
It just shows how broken Mackerel and island villages are currently - the only transmutations I used during the game were Blueberry->Tomato->White Willow for the single non-island village, and two or three Sea Basses that might have been counterproductive in hindsight.

Kalil
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 6:22 am

Re: Top Score Strategies

Post by Kalil » Sun May 26, 2013 5:23 am

It has occurred to me that the most mathematically 'powerful' symbioses are the ones which 'build' multiplicatively off of other stats. This is the mechanic that drives the Mackerel/Anglerfish synergy, the Flourite/Coal synergy, and the Hemp synergies. The other very strong type of synergy is the 'bonus to all x on planet' synergy, because, again, it is 'multiplicative' with the number of recipients of the bonus - this is what drives the Bighorn, Coal/Copper, and Mackerel/Harbour synergies. With that in mind, I pulled out all the natural sources with these types of synergy:
Wiki wrote: Forest:
Orange - +4 Food / Natura on Tile
Foxglove - +3 Tech / Natura on Tile
Sunflower - +1 Awe and Tech / 5 Food in Range

Boar - +4 Wealth / Danger on Tile
Wisent - +2 Food / 3 Natura on Tile
Bear - +2 Wealth / Danger on Tile


Swamp:
Tomato - +1.5 Tech / Food on Tile
Hemp - +2 Tech / Awe in Range


Ocean:
Mackerel - +3 Food / Harbour on planet
Tuna - +.75 Food / Wealth on neighboring Clownfish/Parrotfish/Marlin
Anglerfish - +1.5 Tech / 2 Food on neighboring Mackerel/Marlin


Desert:
Cardon Cactus - +.5 Wealth / Wealth of all Minerals in range

Bighorn - +3 Food to each Deer/Goat on planet


Mountain:
Dragonfruit - +2 Food and +1 Awe / Natura on Tile
Cinnamomum - +.75 Wealth / Wealth of neighboring Minerals

Yak - +2 Food / 5 Natura
Panda - +.4 Wealth / Awe in Range


Minerals:
Onyx - 2.5 Wealth / Natura on Tile
Silver - +.8 Wealth / Wealth on neighboring Topaz/Onyx/Gold/Platinum,
Silver - +.8 Tech / Tech on neighboring Copper/Iron/Aluminium
Diamond - +2.5 Wealth / Wealth on neighboring Animals
Coal - +10 Wealth and Tech / Awe on tiles within 2 range
Coal - +10 Wealth and Tech to each Copper on planet
Oil - 1 Tech / Food of neighboring Plants
Oil - +5 Tech/Wealth/Food per Plant/Mineral/Animal on planet
Iron - +10 Tech / Danger
Zinc - +50% Tech to Copper/Iron/Aluminium within 5 tiles
Uranium - .5 Tech / Tech on sources within two tiles.
The obvious standouts are, in fact, obvious:
Mackerel are involved in both a global and local synergy, hence the strength of the popular Mackerel/Anglerfish build.

Coal is also involved in both a global and local synergy, although unlike Mackerel, they are not self-reinforcing. Copper would be, except that its local synergies boost either Tech or Wealth, not both, and it's a split resource when buffed by coal. Mixing Zinc in might be profitable, though, since a single Zinc can boost 10 copper for +250% Prosperity. -100% for the copper it replaces, and it still boosts your P by +150%

Bighorn have a ton of potential, I think they might be my next avenue for exploration. Each bighorn adds +15P to each deer/goat on the map. They do appear to lose out to coal, although they might synergize very nicely with the lowly Tomato, which'd gain 4.5 food per deed per bighorn. It'd be kind of messy, though, requiring a patchwork of biomes.

Oranges get the best return on Natura, iron gets the best return on Danger, coal gets the best return on Awe by an order of magnitude (but use Hemp if you don't want to /lose/ your Awe), Diamond or Cinnamomum get the best return on Wealth, Tomato gets the best return on Food, and Uranium gets the best return on Tech. Oil also seems really interesting, but I'm not sure exactly what to do with it.

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Dunam
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Re: Top Score Strategies

Post by Dunam » Sun May 26, 2013 5:37 am

I decided to try a mackarel free strategy.

My eye fell on oil. Receiving 8 aspects and giving an immense amount of resource per tile without needing to create a careful ecosystem. That looks interesting.

It's also something that would work best with sublime crystal and sublime seismic. I opted for a desert on my ocean to top it off, so it could make only lvl 1 animals (mackarels). I created a few mackarel when I needed a small food boost (and actually got 2 harbor +food from mackarel projects, go figure).


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I decided early on to cut the world in 4 parts and end up with 4 cities. This was the strength and weakness of this strategy. (although I had 7 cities at one point for quick ambassadors)

The two desert cities were too close and in the end there were a few spaces on the map that went unused (about 8?)

Image
Of course if you go for a mackarel free strategy with minimal oceans, you get a two harbors with mackarel boost on it.

Image
They told this nomad the land was flat, but when he got there he was dissapointed.

Image
The initial plan was oil, but oil wasn't as strong as I thought. However, the same aspects gave me access to coal, which is INSANE.

Each of the 4 cities could have been twice as big (they were still growing towards that), but after an hour they still hadn't grown to the 6000/6000 in wealth and tech, but were stuck at around 3000/6000.

Image
There was constant war, but 4 cities are pretty managable. They were at constant max growth, so danger management wasn't even an option. I made sure there was some danger in between to soften armies, but since the cities were well matched, they didn't really stand a chance to destroy another.

EXCEPT for this moment above, where I had just pummeled a city into submission.
To stop the army attacking them, I had to use three lvl 3 muck bombs and a lvl 1 earthquake and the city only JUST survived.

Image
And with that the world came to an end. Unfortunately there were some villagers who killed the forest giant with 2 seconds left on the clock. So I had to reload an autosave (5 seconds back, thank god) and he had to sleep alone.

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Dunam
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Re: Top Score Strategies

Post by Dunam » Sun May 26, 2013 6:00 am

That's really cool kalil.

I think the weakness of bighorn is that it must receive danger, which is not ideal for an animal you want to spam.

Also goats and deer are interesting, but hardly ever for themselves and they are not very good to spam either.

Diamond wasn't as good as I expected it to be. It's kinda like a .5 wealth boost instead of a 2.5, since it affects only animals.

Kalil
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 6:22 am

Re: Top Score Strategies

Post by Kalil » Sun May 26, 2013 6:12 am

Dunam wrote:My eye fell on oil. Receiving 8 aspects and giving an immense amount of resource per tile without needing to create a careful ecosystem. That looks interesting. .... The initial plan was oil, but oil wasn't as strong as I thought. However, the same aspects gave me access to coal, which is INSANE.
Heh, and that's pretty much exactly what I was theorizing from my post before yours. Coal gains 20P per Awe. The next best resource per resource gain is the 10T from Danger for Iron (and 'danger' isn't really something you can build the way you can build Awe or F/W/T), then the 4F from Natura for Oranges (again, Natura is hard to build). After that, you're in the <= 2 range. So basically, Coal is /ten times/ as good as any other option. The only real downside is the loss of Awe as a greed limiter.

Mackerel are a lot /easier/ (not to mention, waaay too strong for Tier 1), but Coal is probably the strongest resource in the game.

Kalil
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 6:22 am

Re: Top Score Strategies

Post by Kalil » Sun May 26, 2013 6:25 am

Dunam wrote:I think the weakness of bighorn is that it must receive danger, which is not ideal for an animal you want to spam.

Also goats and deer are interesting, but hardly ever for themselves and they are not very good to spam either.

Diamond wasn't as good as I expected it to be. It's kinda like a .5 wealth boost instead of a 2.5, since it affects only animals.
Looks like Bighorn require 1 Hunt or Predator aspect, and the rest can be done with Herd. That shouldn't be too crippling. The point of hte Bighorn would be to buff the Goats/Dear - each Bighorn would give each Goat or Deer +3 Food. So, for a quick estimate, with 20 bighorns and 60 goats on the map, you'd be producing 20*5*6 food from the bighorns and 60*5*(1+3*20) food from the goats. So... 18,900 food total. Min/maxing a bit more, with a 50/50 split, you'd be producing 40*5*6+40*5*(1+3*40)=25,400. This is not nearly as good as a solid mackerel/anglerfish, coal/copper, or coal/awe build, but it's nothing to sneeze at. It could also be significantly amplified with Tomatoes, if you can work them into your terrain (would require hybrid swamp/forest cities for your tomatoes and deer, and desert cities to herd your bighorns).

I kind of expected that Diamond would be weak in practice - that's why I guessed that Cinnamomum might be comparable.

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