Top Score Strategies

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Adriaan
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Re: Top Score Strategies

Post by Adriaan » Sun May 26, 2013 2:38 pm

VDZ wrote:Oh, I just was thinking about this: When two villages go to war, the village sends their army, and after it is defeated and the enemy army reaches their village, the village itself shoots arrows at the enemy army to defend itself. Why isn't this the case with giants?

I think the whole thing would be more challenging if, in addition to sending out an army to actively kill one giant, the village itself would attack any giant (not just the one they're chasing) that dares to come near (treating it as if it were an enemy army; after all, you're about to smash them). Raise Mountain and Create Ocean would become significantly less effective, as they take a long time to use and would therefore cause a lot of damage to the giant using it. While attacking the village would still work to punish them into humility, killing their armies would become more practical. Instead of not allowing the player to attack the village, you can just strongly discourage them from doing so.
Good idea!

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Dunam
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Re: Top Score Strategies

Post by Dunam » Sun May 26, 2013 4:35 pm

Adriaan wrote:Wow, that coal is insane. I don't know really what's the problem here: Coal being to much, or giant hunting being to easy to avoid? What would you say Dunam?
Giant hunting is NOT easy to avoid. I think I saw 15 dead giants that game. Here's the things about giant hunting at those prosperity levels:

1. You can never leave a giant standing over a village. If they chooose to attack, even an immediate pause and run won't save him.
2. You can only walk past a village speedboosted
3. The oceangiant can almost never pass a village safely, so have a giant guard near him to draw the attack
4. I couldn't have done it without lvl 3 aurora and lvl 3 muck bomb, taking away some build options.
5. I created a safe haven corner of the world where mobs had to take multiple ocean / mountain squares with 30 danger so that they wouldn't get killed in their sleep. They still got killed in their sleep.

If they did sneaky attacking, it would get too frustrating.



The game instead of being capped by natural sources becomes capped by growth.
More villlages means more growth, but also fewer squares and harder management.
It's still an interesting challenge.

But coal surpasses everything else in production value.

If you're looking for a bad guy in this story, it's coal. In the end, something must give the highest score. Coal at least is both hard to get to and still asks you to optimize an ecosystem. High end awe comes in a variety of flavors and most require additional spaces for maximum awe.

I just had so much fun with this, I'm not sure if you want to take that from other players. It's not like there are player vs player competitions and people's fun is taken away because other players keep using OP coal strategies.

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Dunam
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Re: Top Score Strategies

Post by Dunam » Sun May 26, 2013 4:36 pm

Adriaan wrote:
VDZ wrote:Oh, I just was thinking about this: When two villages go to war, the village sends their army, and after it is defeated and the enemy army reaches their village, the village itself shoots arrows at the enemy army to defend itself. Why isn't this the case with giants?

I think the whole thing would be more challenging if, in addition to sending out an army to actively kill one giant, the village itself would attack any giant (not just the one they're chasing) that dares to come near (treating it as if it were an enemy army; after all, you're about to smash them). Raise Mountain and Create Ocean would become significantly less effective, as they take a long time to use and would therefore cause a lot of damage to the giant using it. While attacking the village would still work to punish them into humility, killing their armies would become more practical. Instead of not allowing the player to attack the village, you can just strongly discourage them from doing so.
Good idea!
That would mean there's nothing you can do to high prospwrity villages. They would kill the rock giant before his second earthquake stomp.

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Adriaan
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Re: Top Score Strategies

Post by Adriaan » Sun May 26, 2013 4:46 pm

Thanks for your inisghts Dunam! I just finished a high prosperity (12500) game as well, I still think kiting is a bit to easy, but you make some very valid points. I still am going to nerf Coal (it's just too much like this), but I think a new game where reloads are not allowed would surely make the game more intense and careful... ;)

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Dunam
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Re: Top Score Strategies

Post by Dunam » Sun May 26, 2013 4:52 pm

No reloads and no pausing would be fun. So games don't take 6 times their advertised length :)

I hope that doesn't prevent me from save/reload to unstuck giants or save to reload a crash. I saw a variety of weird crasges that game. The silver text bug as well as another crash where I tried to terraform a-typical terrain and it crashed each time a second before a mountain area appeared under a awe boosted onyx in coal range. Might be connected to having oil. In the end I had to leave it the way it was.

And trust me, beyond 17000 prosperity, instagib lynch mobs are not easy to deal with.

coanda
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Re: Top Score Strategies

Post by coanda » Sun May 26, 2013 5:23 pm

I was actually wondering - what happens if you get a village rebelling with a very small army? Do they reinforce as prosperity rises? Do they dispatch new mobs as they train new soldiers? Will they still start and complete projects and give ambassadors while rebelling? Will they start wars while rebelling?

I'm wondering whether you could deliberately provoke a very early rebellion with an extremely small number of soldiers, then just basically ignore the fact that the village is at max greed from then on (besides occasionally healing your giants, and keeping on the move at least somewhat).

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VDZ
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Re: Top Score Strategies

Post by VDZ » Sun May 26, 2013 7:04 pm

Dunam wrote:I just had so much fun with this, I'm not sure if you want to take that from other players. It's not like there are player vs player competitions and people's fun is taken away because other players keep using OP coal strategies.
The game can be quite competitive. Even if you're only trying to beat your own high score, having one tactic being clearly superior is detrimental to the game as you simply can't get a higher score unless you use that tactic. It reduces the variety in serious play. It's the same reason why characters must be balanced in a fighting game; if one character is much more powerful than the rest, you'll be at a huge disadvantage if you don't pick that character, so you're practically forced to play that character if you want to 'play seriously'.
Dunam wrote:That would mean there's nothing you can do to high prospwrity villages. They would kill the rock giant before his second earthquake stomp.
No, it would mean you have to defeat the armies they're sending at you rather than just distracting the armies and leisurely damaging the village to punish them while they're distracted. The armies only target a single giant; you can use the other giants to safely destroy that army. Danger also kills armies while they're walking (not sure if it counts towards humility punishment), so there's still plenty of ways to go about it. Giant hunting would just become an actual problem rather than just a small nuisance.
Adriaan wrote:but I think a new game where reloads are not allowed would surely make the game more intense and careful... ;)
If you make a mode like that, can you disable the 'giant killed = INSTANT GAME OVER' rule? While I like harsh challenges (I've played classic-style roguelikes like ADOM and Ragnarok), Reus is a game with not enough variety in the average play session to make restarting over and over and over and not making it to the end appealing (not to mention that unlike perma-death games, a game over in Reus simply means NO SCORE). It gets even worse when you consider how much out of nowhere it can come (new project! Instant 100% greed! Immediately attack giant that happened to be close and deal 20% damage per second!); even traps in roguelikes require you to step onto them (and always have a way to avoid or nullify them). I think the handicap of losing one of your giants for the rest of that world is enough of a penalty to make players watch out for angry mobs.
coanda wrote:I was actually wondering - what happens if you get a village rebelling with a very small army? Do they reinforce as prosperity rises? Do they dispatch new mobs as they train new soldiers? Will they still start and complete projects and give ambassadors while rebelling? Will they start wars while rebelling?

I'm wondering whether you could deliberately provoke a very early rebellion with an extremely small number of soldiers, then just basically ignore the fact that the village is at max greed from then on (besides occasionally healing your giants, and keeping on the move at least somewhat).
I'm not sure if they start projects or wars, but yes, they won't send another army (or reinforce the existing one) until the one that's attacking you is dead. You can actually sometimes get lucky with this, if after an Earthquake or Muck Bomb only a couple soldiers are left; just leave them alone and take the tiny amount of damage and they won't attack you again!

nikujinn
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Re: Top Score Strategies

Post by nikujinn » Sun May 26, 2013 8:51 pm

Edit: Mistaken, there is better strategy

Im pretty sure i know the best strategy for 120min.

1. 5 viliges all dessert, no mountain, eqally devided (16 sapce between).
U are left with 80-10(projects)=70 space.

2. 35 iron, 35 coal.

3. all projects: druid(Hermit)>Alchemist(Philspher's Stone)
Blast Furnace(Steel Melters)>factory(Ignite Tech) ...>>im not sure what "Tireless Tycoon Adriaan " does

4. projects must be on the other sides of the city (2 space between city and project), there have to be 4 iron mines next to all projects.

5. strategy for greed is to make all armies hunt 1 giant and kite them around the world forever.

6. all max sublime aspect

7. save/load to get all those steps

This strategy would take weeks with save/load to do a perfect score. U would have to rush swamp/forest ambasadors first. You need to save every few seconds to get all best projects, no villige destryed and keep giants alive.

As for makarel/ang.fish strat. max is about 30.000, I could reach it if i would save/load for every sublime aspect(would take 5-10 hours). At the end i had like 10 min when i did nothing.
Maybe u could get more with only 5 cities (very hard).

I was really tired after that one, also it was my 3'rd game overall. I can load last 30min and and make it to about 30.000.
Feel free to beat me, aim for more then 30.000.
:D

sorry for bad english

edit: oh, and ofcourse You would need to get same tech earlier for projects, and redoo to coal/iron later.
Last edited by nikujinn on Sun May 26, 2013 11:53 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Dunam
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Re: Top Score Strategies

Post by Dunam » Sun May 26, 2013 9:04 pm

Surely you want to add 3 zinc mines or so to that.

nikujinn
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Re: Top Score Strategies

Post by nikujinn » Sun May 26, 2013 9:11 pm

Dunam wrote:Surely you want to add 3 zinc mines or so to that.

why?

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