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Re: Top Score Strategies

Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:13 pm
by Dunam
Because one zinc mine potentially boosts 10 iron mines for about 25% each (actually 50%, but only boosts tech)

Re: Top Score Strategies

Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:18 pm
by nikujinn
Dunam wrote:Because one zinc mine potentially boosts 10 iron mines for about 25% each (actually 50%, but only boosts tech)
better to boost 35 mines +10/+10 and all the project simultaneously.

Re: Top Score Strategies

Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 10:28 pm
by Kalil
nikujinn wrote:Im pretty sure i know the best strategy for 120min.

2. 35 iron, 35 coal.
First: Why Desert Iron instead of Mountain Copper? Mountain Copper is worth 25T more per outcrop than Desert Iron.
Second: This strat (using Mountain Copper) works out to somewhere around 35*(40+50+50)+35*(50+35*20)=31,150 Prosperity. The Coal/Tea strat, tea-tea-coal-tea-tea-coal, using 3x Sublime Leaf to get some of your Tea Plants up to Natura Range 3, works out to about 47*(20+70)+23*(40+4*110*20)=207,550 Prosperity.
(Both of these would be slightly lessened due to towns disrupting the pattern, and slightly strengthened by aspects, of course, but I think Coal/Tea pretty clearly wins...)

EDIT: And I was using a calculator that failed Oder of Operations, so had to redo my arithmetic. Should be correct, now...

Re: Top Score Strategies

Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:04 pm
by Kalil
nikujinn wrote:
Dunam wrote:Because one zinc mine potentially boosts 10 iron mines for about 25% each (actually 50%, but only boosts tech)
better to boost 35 mines +10/+10 and all the project simultaneously.
I'm not sure if Zinc is actually worthwhile, because it requires clustering the Copper/Iron together, surrendering the proximity bonus on the coal, but let me run the numbers... I'll use 1 Zinc for every 10 copper, which would leave 2 copper unbuffed. To simplify my math, I'm going to make those Coal instead...
37*(40)+3*25+30*((50+37*10)*1.5+37*10)=31,555 Prosperity, slightly beating out the Zinc-free strategy despite the loss of the proximity bonus and the uneven split between coal/copper.

Re: Top Score Strategies

Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:46 pm
by nikujinn
Kalil wrote:
nikujinn wrote:Im pretty sure i know the best strategy for 120min.

2. 35 iron, 35 coal.
First: Why Desert Iron instead of Mountain Copper? Mountain Copper is worth 25T more per outcrop than Desert Iron.
montain slow border growth
wouldnt reach all sapce in 120 min.
Kalil wrote: Second: This strat (using Mountain Copper) works out to somewhere around 35*(40+50+50)+35*(50+35*20)=31,150 Prosperity. The Coal/Tea strat, tea-tea-coal-tea-tea-coal, using 3x Sublime Leaf to get some of your Tea Plants up to Natura Range 3, works out to about 47*(20+70)+23*(40+4*110*20)=207,550 Prosperity.
(Both of these would be slightly lessened due to towns disrupting the pattern, and slightly strengthened by aspects, of course, but I think Coal/Tea pretty clearly wins...)

EDIT: And I was using a calculator that failed Oder of Operations, so had to redo my arithmetic. Should be correct, now...
U are right The Coal/Tea strat is better, i assume that samething with global range for sure would be the best.
Then the best strat that I can come up with is now ...VVVVPTTCTTCTTCTTCTTPVVVVP...(V-city, P-project,T-tea, C-coal) all around the world.
And U would have to choose the best fitting projects. save/load to achive right place and specialization.
I was over confident.

Re: Top Score Strategies

Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:50 pm
by Dunam
But the advanced tea only gets its bonus once (it's bugged) and although next patch fixes that, I believe.... it will also change coal.

I also think you'r looking in the wrong direction.once you get really high prosperity from resources it isn't capped by natural sources, it's capped by village acquisition growth. So the challenge is sooner how many villages can you accomodate, not, how to get max potential prosperity.

Re: Top Score Strategies

Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 12:10 am
by Kalil
nikujinn wrote:
Kalil wrote:
nikujinn wrote:Im pretty sure i know the best strategy for 120min.

2. 35 iron, 35 coal.
First: Why Desert Iron instead of Mountain Copper? Mountain Copper is worth 25T more per outcrop than Desert Iron.
montain slow border growth
wouldnt reach all sapce in 120 min.
Interesting trick there: if you place the mountain after the borders have already grown, it won't slow growth. So start with a desert town, and place your mountains once the borders have expanded beyond 4 tiles (you can start with an interupted 3-tile mountain, then expand it a tile at a time as your borders continue to grow). Since mines are not destroyed by conversion to mountain, this would be relatively non-disruptive.
nikujinn wrote:
Kalil wrote: Second: This strat (using Mountain Copper) works out to somewhere around 35*(40+50+50)+35*(50+35*20)=31,150 Prosperity. The Coal/Tea strat, tea-tea-coal-tea-tea-coal, using 3x Sublime Leaf to get some of your Tea Plants up to Natura Range 3, works out to about 47*(20+70)+23*(40+4*110*20)=207,550 Prosperity.
(Both of these would be slightly lessened due to towns disrupting the pattern, and slightly strengthened by aspects, of course, but I think Coal/Tea pretty clearly wins...)

EDIT: And I was using a calculator that failed Oder of Operations, so had to redo my arithmetic. Should be correct, now...
U are right The Coal/Tea strat is better, i assume that samething with global range for sure would be the best.
Then the best strat that I can come up with is now ...VVVVPTTCTTCTTCTTCTTPVVVVP...(V-city, P-project,T-tea, C-coal) all around the world.
And U would have to choose the best fitting projects. save/load to achive right place and specialization.
I was over confident.
Yup, that looks about right.
Dunam wrote:But the advanced tea only gets its bonus once (it's bugged) and although next patch fixes that, I believe.... it will also change coal.
Oooh, I'd forgotten that. That does change things a bit. You can use level 2 tea instead (55 Awe, basically halves your prosperity), or... *looks around for other options* Panda is 40, that's a downgrade... Flourite would only be 20-40, depending on your combo... Zinc could hit 50... Yah, Tea is still the best option. Just have to avoid taking a Swamp Ambassador on your Swamp Giant.

As my GPS device likes to say, "Recalculating."
47*(20+70)+23*(45+4*53*20)=102,785 Prosperity. So... Only about thrice as good as the next best option, then.
Dunam wrote:I also think you're looking in the wrong direction.once you get really high prosperity from resources it isn't capped by natural sources, it's capped by village acquisition growth. So the challenge is sooner how many villages can you accommodate, not, how to get max potential prosperity.
This is true, but that's a practical consideration, and until I actually have time to play again, I only care about theory. ;p

Re: Top Score Strategies

Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 8:02 am
by VDZ
Kalil wrote:Since mines are not destroyed by conversion to mountain, this would be relatively non-disruptive.
Some, such as Quartz, are. In biome conversion, all resources incompatible with the new biome are destroyed. Most desert mines just happen to be compatible with mountains.

Re: Top Score Strategies

Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 8:40 am
by coanda
Judicious use of bears can also push the score. I'm not sure how much danger you could safely absorb, but... 1 point of danger on a bear tile becomes 2 food and 12 wealth. So, for example, a 75-danger Bear tile yields 150 food and 150 gold from the circus, plus another 170 gold and 6 food per tile over a 5-tile spread (plus aspect bonuses for another ~18 per tile), so that tile is yielding a net of about 1250 prosperity. The problem is that your village simply can't survive that many high-danger bear tiles - plus, of course, getting bears isn't exactly easy.

There might be a way of combining bears, iron, and silver to get an even better result. The challenge would be finding a convenient way of generating the danger without wasting too many tiles on it, but the iron-silver combo is then transforming 1 point of danger into (assuming circus bonus) 2 food, 2 gold, and 18 tech. It's even possible there's a way of mixing zinc in as well, although I'm not sure how the +50% tech to iron from zinc would combine with the +10 tech per danger on iron and the +80% of the iron's tech added to the silver.

Of course, all of this continues to pale in comparison to the "British Empire" approach of tea and coal. But since there's apparently a coal nerf looming, it'll soon be quite relevant.

Re: Top Score Strategies

Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 11:34 am
by ollj
Dunam wrote:But the advanced tea only gets its bonus once (it's bugged) and although next patch fixes that, I believe.... it will also change coal.

I also think you'r looking in the wrong direction.once you get really high prosperity from resources it isn't capped by natural sources, it's capped by village acquisition growth. So the challenge is sooner how many villages can you accomodate, not, how to get max potential prosperity.

exactly. wealth food and tech grow to their max values independently. each 3 of thrm should be in a constant increase rate for the most efficient growdth.