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Greed: The literal worst mechanic.

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Greed: The literal worst mechanic.

Post by smithay » Mon May 20, 2013 4:16 am

Hi, just found the forum, great game. But i'm having a bit of trouble getting a well developed world due to my villages constantly attacking me or each other. I seem to spend the second hour just running away from mobs or crushing rebellions when all i want to be doing is making some sick symbiosis.

Danger is meant to stop this right? Thats fine if they are trying to build a castle you can make boars but with a bank or factory it seems impossible to get enough danger, you lay like one gold mine and they go mental.

Any suggestions much appreciated.

NB: Is there a way to heal the water god? He keeps dieing.

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Re: Greed: The literal worst mechanic.

Post by Touriste » Mon May 20, 2013 4:28 am

Well, there are different ways to stop greed, danger and awe.
I recommend you to build a mental (or write it) architecture of what you want the village to be and then build it slowly with a lot of danger animals around.
Or you can go fast if you know this symbiosis will give you a lot of awe.

It is the key mechanic to the game ... You have to find the right pace for your villages.

Without it it the game would be about spamming ressources.

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Re: Greed: The literal worst mechanic.

Post by blackimperator » Mon May 20, 2013 9:51 am

smithay wrote: NB: Is there a way to heal the water god? He keeps dieing.
the Monsoon ability is supposed to heal him. (i say "supposed to" because i haven't had the occasion to check yet)

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Re: Greed: The literal worst mechanic.

Post by M4st3rM1nd » Mon May 20, 2013 4:15 pm

When a village is growing too fast they will gain greed over time.
When the difference between a resource available and used is bigger than 20+ awe they grow to quickly.

Ways to prevent this:
Awe: As shown above, increasing your awe will allow you to expand faster. Early mines and plants both give awe.
Danger: Even if you exceeded the safe difference, if your village has too much danger greed will not increase. So if you want to expand fast you can keep the danger in the middle and they won't get greedy.

and yes the monsoon ability can heal the water giant

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Re: Greed: The literal worst mechanic.

Post by NeonElf » Mon May 20, 2013 4:41 pm

Has anyone here actually ever had enough danger to affect greed? I mean by the time I can make dangerous animals the villages are advanced to the point it would require nothing but surrounding them with bears on all spots. Does anyone actually use danger effectively? If so how?

-Neon Elf

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Re: Greed: The literal worst mechanic.

Post by smithay » Mon May 20, 2013 4:55 pm

I agree the danger requirements are too high, from what i can gather you want to go all in on either max awe or max danger, having a bit of each is pointless.
Javlinas are the best danger creature in my limited experience, 3 superior javlinas next to each other gives 90 danger and 500 food total without even using extra aspects. I killed a city once by making 4 of them.

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Re: Greed: The literal worst mechanic.

Post by kaibioinfo » Mon May 20, 2013 6:00 pm

In the beginning, getting enough danger is very hard. But later it's no problem: Just put multiple hunt- or predator-aspects on you animals. A single animal with 3 hunt aspects can give 15 danger. Two of this animals and you have enough danger for a middle sized town. In the beginning, fishs can help you. They have a great range and, therefore, can give you danger even if they are outside of your borders.

But I think danger belongs to the things which should be explained in more detail in the tutorial.

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Re: Greed: The literal worst mechanic.

Post by Caiobrz » Wed May 22, 2013 2:31 pm

I only had my villagers attack my giants ONCE.

Your main issue is that YOU are being GREEDY (lol), yeap, that's right! You can't give too many resources to your villagers, or THEY will get greedy.

Danger is only a temporary control, since as the town growns, it can handle more danger. Also, it's probably not in your best interest to waste patches with danger when you need it for other resources for projects.

Just pace down a little on giving them resources, and try to give them some more AWE so you can boost the resources more before they get greedy (works way better than danger).

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Re: Greed: The literal worst mechanic.

Post by SketchyGalore » Wed May 22, 2013 3:52 pm

Once you get a hang of things, it's VERY easy to go crazy with danger ratings if you pick the right ambassadors (Predator and Hunt are the abilities you'd want to focus on, as well as Exotic and Domestic animals, obviously). I've found that mountains and deserts are easiest to produce danger, swamps are so-so, forests are kind of hard, and oceans are very difficult (I imagine unlocking sharks would help).

Musk deer are a surprisingly good danger animal. They get +1 range if they have 2 danger, which can easily be achieved by even the earliest predator/hunt aspects, and they usually take only one potent aspect to be created on mountains. If all five tiles they cover are within borders, 2 danger is easily 10 total, and you can usually get them up much higher than that. Later on, javalinas are an obvious choice, as well as some of the basic level 1 desert and mountain animals (one of them gets +2 with a mineral, but I can't remember which). And lastly... PANDAS! Seriously, villagers hate those things if you put them down in the right/wrong place :P Just remember that animals are the multi-tile solution, so every point of danger can be multiplied, including points made just outside borders.

The biggest thing to keep in mind is a bug (or maybe not? No one ever answered my tech forum post on this) where greed will not increase OR decrease when danger hits the high enough mark. So, if you try to use it as a solution to fix a greedy town, it will NEVER stop being greedy unless it attacks your giant and you kill the attackers. Similarly, a 0 greed town that fails a project will still get a greed penalty, and if the town is under danger, it will be permanent until danger is reduced. This doesn't make danger useless, but it certainly makes it a lot harder to use effectively.

On the plus side, high-danger tiles naturally cause damage to invading armies, so in some situations, a town with decently strong neighbors can be "fenced in" with danger, causing them to automatically lose every war they start... of course, this also means you have villages churning out war marks, which can be even more of a hassle than greed itself, since a war-experienced village can decide to attack with just 1-2 points of greed.

The ultimate technique I've found for all this is "danger rushing". This technique works best late-game when you are trying to complete the biggest projects and have at least one 4-ambassador giant. The idea is to keep danger in the "middle zone" while pumping out RIDICULOUS amounts of resources. Remembering that the bigger the gap between a resource in use and a total resource, the faster the development; I was able to do something like 200/700 on both food and wealth simultaneously, just by keeping an eye on the village and carefully tweaking danger. It's tricky, since if you put in too much the villagers will come out and destroy a tile, most likely putting you in the low-zone, at which point greed will explode, but it's the best way I know to pump out an opera or factory or something.

And that's pretty much everything I know about danger :) You can use the wiki to help make some plans. Like everything, it takes some forethought. You actually have to decide that you're going to make a "danger village" to use it effectively, the same way you'd decide to focus on minerals more than animals, or animals more than plants.

And remember, sometimes awe is easier! Three strawberries next to each other in a forest will make your early game MUCH easier!

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Re: Greed: The literal worst mechanic.

Post by Dunam » Wed May 22, 2013 3:58 pm

It's very easy to create danger with mackarel, because of their immense range. You can get about 5-8 danger PER hunter/predator aspect.

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