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My suggestions and annoyances ;)

Anything Reus-related that doesn't fit the other forums.
Caiobrz
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 12:43 pm

My suggestions and annoyances ;)

Post by Caiobrz » Wed May 22, 2013 3:08 pm

Hello, love the game. I have been a great fan of God-games ever since Populous!

Took e a while to get into the game, the tech-tree and huge number of combinations of symbiosis take a long way to get you even knowing what you CAN do, let alone how. I see there is already a thread on improving tooltips and such, so I won't bother you with that ... more than already mentioning we need more information. By the time I memorize every plant/animal/mineral and their symbiosis, which should happen somewhere next 10 years, I will probably be getting tired and ready for Reus 2!

Anyway ...

I will sum my suggestions up, then elaborate:

1. Tweak giant leveling to make it faster to achieve high-level skills, not 2 hours T_T
2. More punishment/rewards towards the humans (skills) other than muck-ball and earthquake (thunderstorms, meteorshower, vulcano, aurora, ...)
3. Better antagonist force. Greed is not enough once you get how to play. Suggestion: AWE reduction as town grows
4. Terraforming tweaking: reduce ocean, some bugs like deserts in the middle of nowhere, self-spawn forrests
5. Others


Elaborating ...

1. The giants leveling should be reviewed as it's currently impossible to get them fully upgraded other than in free game (9 ambassadors, really?). I don't see the need for the ambassador distribution rule, as you need every giant to be more or less upgraded to succeed (in fact, remove that rule and let the player learn he/she should keep the giants up to par by himself! lol). I have almost beat most achievements and I have NEVER used a superior patch, and only a few (and to no fault of my own lol) great patches. That's how hard it is to get the giants leveled.

1.b Did I mention the giant leveling should be reviewed? yes ... single most annoying thing to me. When I finally get all skills unlocked on all giants, I have only 10 minutes left (in the 120 minutes game), what!? Am I slow? well, I like to savor the game, I believe this is not a game to be rushed right?

1.c. Suggestion: level 2: 4 ambassadors, level 3: 5 ambassadors. Done. Still needs 20 ambassadors to have all giants upgraded ... better than 36

2. There is a certain lack of direct God-to-human interaction, like punishing (without destroying) or even rewarding (without the obvious gameplay). We could have skills that reduce greed/war-prone or add temporary danger. Some suggestions (all with big cooldowns):

-Thunderstorm (30s awe/danger boost, reduces village growth speed) - maybe this can be incorporated on monsoon?
-Meteor Shower (10s awe/danger boost, deals AOE damage to armies, revolts, but won't destroy patches/villages) - a new skill for the rock giant? he has one less than the ocean and forest one
-Aurora Boreallis (directly reduces greed and war prone factor, while increasing village growth) - a new skill problably to the swamp giant? this one is intended to work as a reward slash boost skill
-Vulcano (only placeable at the summit of a mountain) creates a stream of UNPASSABLE lava. A natural border that prevents warring between the two sides. To remove, ocean. Some minerals could have special symbiosis if places near a vulcano.

3. We need a better antagonist force towards end-game. For some reason the way I play seldom (once) makes the villagers revolt against my giant, so I am quickly getting bored towards the end of the game, with some angst that the time is almost up and I am still at level 2 giants (but I still manage to get tier 3 projects done by having less villages in the world by the end of the game, I purposefully destroy the ones too close to each other to allow one to grow more =p). The problem here is that villagers can get greedy and fight you as early as the first minutes, or never! I believe that a small tweak on technology (and how it usually contrasts myth and religion - cleverly translated into awe in the game) so villagers can end up attacking you DESPITE not being greedy. Science kills God you know ... So if you favor villages that are more traditional (like, not knowledge/technological oriented), you are safer, but to get some achievements you need those, and they are harder to achieve precisely because big villages with too much science will not be as easily awed regardless of their projects. I see some effort in that direction when some projects deduct awe (for weird reason, why a school/university have CHILD LABOR??? and why does that remove awe?), but that's just a too subtle. So, maybe some characteristic in the game should deduct awe. You can only GAIN/ADD awe as of now, why not make that larger villages have a deduction the larger they are? technology could also reduce awe, like each 100 tech reduces 1 awe. In the end, a big tech city would need you to add extra awe/danger to control, while a cute county village, as large as it may be, is more inclined to keep in awe of the giants even in this day and age ;)

4. Terra-forming is a little tricky as of now. I suggest the ocean created by the ocean giant to be smaller, if you need more, you use the skill again. But a 9 patch ocean as default is a little too much. Maybe 7? I say that because sometimes I do want a smaller ocean and when I raise a mountain to remove PART of the ocean, I end up removing all tee-hee

4.b While on the above subject, weird things are happening, to number a few: sometimes, raising a ocean back to level will give you a couple of patches of desert; raising a mountain close to an ocean SOMETIMES (happens often, but I am still not aware of how to properly replicate) fills the side of the mountain to the ocean with forrest instead of leaving it wasteland;

5 Others:
+GUI request: right-clicking on an ambassador at the ambassador list (top left) sends the currently selected giant to pick it up, so you don't need to stop whatever you are doing to go there, click on the ambassador, go back to work
+As mentioned, better tooltips or tech-trees as a reference
+Fast-foward (2x?) option
+Auto triggering small natural events, like tornados, small earthquakes/tsunamis, heatstroke, blizzards ... would happen in a few patches with negative consequences that you could (or not) micromanage. This would work as micro-antagonists =p

Rhadamant
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Re: My suggestions and annoyances ;)

Post by Rhadamant » Wed May 22, 2013 3:15 pm

Caiobrz wrote:
1. Tweak giant leveling to make it faster to achieve high-level skills, not 2 hours T_T
2. More punishment/rewards towards the humans (skills) other than muck-ball and earthquake (thunderstorms, meteorshower, vulcano, aurora, ...)
3. Better antagonist force. Greed is not enough once you get how to play. Suggestion: AWE reduction as town grows
4. Terraforming tweaking: reduce ocean, some bugs like deserts in the middle of nowhere, self-spawn forrests
5. Others
I see your #1 and #3 going hand in hand. You are not growing fast enough to get high level skills and therefore because you're taking your time it feel as if the game is too easy. The purpose is to expand on the brink of greed and war as fast as you can, that's the real challenge. The point of not being able to 'full upgrade' your giants is that you need to specialize each game, making each game different from one another.

#2 The challenge of the humans turning on you is that you don't have too many options to defend yourself. If we were given many abilities to squash human rebellions we could just keep punishing the humans and expand as fast as we want, ignoring Awe and Danger.

#4 I don't really think terraforming needs tweaking. You can create smaller oceans by having your rock giant raise the corner of an ocean. This does, however, leads to irrigating less land.

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Touriste
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Re: My suggestions and annoyances ;)

Post by Touriste » Wed May 22, 2013 3:31 pm

This goes into viewforum.php?f=11 I think.

Rhadamant pretty much answered your "annoyance".

Maybe in freeplay we could have an option that unlock 4 ambassadors limit on the giant's head.
But for the era game, I think we need to keep it that way so it has replayability.

Your giants represent "mother nature" I can not agree with the Meteor Shower.
Thunderstorm should destroy patches.
Aurora Boreallis should give only awe.
Vulcano should have random eruptions that destroy 2 patches arounds the moutain (and reduce health of a village by half)

If we deduct awe at the end game, when you have to grow your village around 1000+ resources, I think they will become ready quite fast ... considering you give a lot of resources at the same time.

4.b Screenshots ?

5.
+ GUI request : pause ?
+ In progress
+ I do not know for you but I do a lot of pauses while playing, this is just a way to reduce the time you pass on the game.
+ I do agree with the random natural events :> I like it to be positive consequences too, for some.

Caiobrz
Posts: 43
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Re: My suggestions and annoyances ;)

Post by Caiobrz » Wed May 22, 2013 4:08 pm

So, I am wrong because I am not raping my mouse button and playing as fast as I can?

This is a God game right? Not a rush-and-click-as-fast-as-you-can.

I am very disappointed that the "reason" for my suggestions being bashed is that I want to ENJOY the game and not be a testosterone induced kid which tries to impress people with my 133t speed.

I can totally relate to "you are supposed to play like this or that" when it's inside the rules of the game, but telling me I am playing right, just not fast enough, is a moot point. Why make a sim/god game if the goal is to be as fast as possible?

hmm should have thought that's why the timer was there in the first place. Strange is that I still got most achievements, what YOU guys play for? I need to check the few achievements I didn't get, there is probably some "get 1kk prosperity in 30 min" one I missed =/

You guys need to go play some FPS, like RIGHT NOW! release that stress, back them up, HEADSHOT!

Funiest part: my request for a fast foward being turned down for using PAUSE instead. No no, can't pause, can't ... break .... speed ... you guys probably go to the other side of the world, pick the ambassador and back to the project faster I can blink right?

lol

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VDZ
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Re: My suggestions and annoyances ;)

Post by VDZ » Wed May 22, 2013 4:24 pm

By 'growing fast' they mean setting up your patches to allow for so much village resource growth that they become greedy (while simultaneously either making sure they don't become TOO greedy or just smashing them whenever they do become too greedy). Also, having multiple villages greatly increases difficulty; the odds of quickly developing humans killing a giant are minimal, but preventing villages from destroying other villages is a much bigger challenge.

But yes, Reus is a game where speed is important (whether that is in the form of clicking like mad or just pausing every now and then to optimally use your time). Perhaps your preconceived notions dictate that a god game should be calm and relaxing, but Reus's time limits clearly indicate one of Reus's challenges is doing as much as possible within as little time as possible. If you don't like that, I'm afraid Reus just isn't your kind of game.

kaibioinfo
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Re: My suggestions and annoyances ;)

Post by kaibioinfo » Wed May 22, 2013 4:38 pm

I think it is not bashing if other people have different opinions...
I can totally relate to "you are supposed to play like this or that" when it's inside the rules of the game, but telling me I am playing right, just not fast enough, is a moot point. Why make a sim/god game if the goal is to be as fast as possible?
You misunderstand: There is no need to click fast, as there is a pause button. Fast means: Let your village grows fast.

You say that your village never are revolting. That's because you let them grow slowly. But then you will run out of time. It's the same as in many strategy games where you have either the possibility to expand, rush and make great tactics, or the boring strategy games where you take hours of building up your base and defeat the enemy with a big army. Reus give you both strategies: The slowly one, where you enjoy the development of your planet (preferable in free style playing) and the fast one where you have to take the right decisions and have to prioritize your actions.
The giants leveling should be reviewed as it's currently impossible to get them fully upgraded other than in free game
You don't have to fully upgrade them. If you upgrade at least on giant such that it can place Level 3 resources, that may be enough the unlock all achievements.
+Fast-foward (2x?) option
Hm, I think that it not necessary, as you have always to do something. Especially in the first games thi mislead the players to place some resources and wait until the cities grow, instead of e.g. placing and developing new cities. Maybe this could be a function which is unlocked by achievements.
+Auto triggering small natural events, like tornados, small earthquakes/tsunamis, heatstroke, blizzards ... would happen in a few patches with negative consequences that you could (or not) micromanage. This would work as micro-antagonists =p
That could be very annoying (as there are often situations where you are very busy), but yeah, I like the idea.
+GUI request: right-clicking on an ambassador at the ambassador list (top left) sends the currently selected giant to pick it up, so you don't need to stop whatever you are doing to go there, click on the ambassador, go back to work
Why not. But you can also zoom out to the planet map. That is the way I do it.

I'm definitely for volcanos. Also some other skills for the giants which affect the villages would be great.

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Touriste
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Re: My suggestions and annoyances ;)

Post by Touriste » Wed May 22, 2013 4:43 pm

Caiobrz wrote:So, I am wrong because I am not raping my mouse button and playing as fast as I can?
No one said you were wrong.
Caiobrz wrote:I am very disappointed that the "reason" for my suggestions being bashed is that I want to ENJOY the game and not be a testosterone induced kid which tries to impress people with my 133t speed.
Try freeplay then.

Caiobrz wrote:I can totally relate to "you are supposed to play like this or that" when it's inside the rules of the game, but telling me I am playing right, just not fast enough, is a moot point. Why make a sim/god game if the goal is to be as fast as possible?
kaibioinfo answered first part

Goals are unlocks. Once you unlocked enough, you can play slow, for example doing the 2hours era to unlock the 2tier/1tier upgrades.
Caiobrz wrote:You guys need to go play some FPS, like RIGHT NOW! release that stress, back them up, HEADSHOT!
Okay.
Caiobrz wrote:Funiest part: my request for a fast foward being turned down for using PAUSE instead. No no, can't pause, can't ... break .... speed ... you guys probably go to the other side of the world, pick the ambassador and back to the project faster I can blink right?
I should have say :
Why do you want fast forward when the game need plans and thinking before doing symbiosis and all ?

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Adriaan
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Re: My suggestions and annoyances ;)

Post by Adriaan » Wed May 22, 2013 4:50 pm

I'm happy you are here to represent a underepresented group of Reus gamers Caiobrz! I gave a more elaborate answer here.

I hope you stick around to bring more feedback and ideas, since I think Reus could be better for players like you without 'dumbing the game down' for the hardcore challengists. :)

Rhadamant
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Re: My suggestions and annoyances ;)

Post by Rhadamant » Wed May 22, 2013 4:50 pm

@Caiobrz

You are welcome to play leisurely and relaxed but the developers put in a 2h time limit for a reason, they wanted us to try to accomplish as much as we possibly can in that 2h time limit. Ramping up the difficulty for everyone else because when you leisurely play it isn't challenging enough for you is not the answer. I'm not telling you how to play, I'm just telling you how the game was intended to be played.

Freeplay, however, seems to be more your speed and I concede to one of your ideas that it would be smart to allow more than the 4 ambassador cap in Freeplay, but I don't think that's a smart decision for Era play as it decreases the difficulty.

Caiobrz
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: My suggestions and annoyances ;)

Post by Caiobrz » Wed May 22, 2013 5:43 pm

Happy to see that I was not totally wrong that going slow and strong is also a goal of the game.

My main qualm was indeed that the option is not really there if the same limits apply to freeplay. Also, while I agree there is no problem in not allowing all giants to be fully upgraded to get all the unlocks/achievements (I got most achievements, but I just realized I'm short on the 3rd tier unlocks), it IS bothering in freeplay.

I find it curious the thread about either if the tooltips should be more explicit and numeric to prevent Reus to become a math/card game, while it is quite clear the most experienced players already do the math in their heads ;) tooltips are for us noobs to catch up easier!

If one wants to prevent any game from becoming a math/card game, there have been only two possible solutions: one, hide all the game mechanics and make things happen visually (instead of numbers, use progress bars), or make the values random per play (not really random, you still have a ordered tech tree, but how much better each thing is changes per play, so it's pointless to do the "math", you need to know the strategy, not the answer).

Also, to be a fast-click game, it needs to have the math, so I think Reus is leaning towards that too much. If it's an issue (to prevent that), then the detailed tooltips and clear game mechanics are in the way. I think that if a bot can play the game, then it's not a strategy/puzzle game, it's just ... a game =p

No wonder lots of games have become procedural latelly, to add that extra replay value of "not knowing". Just extra 2 cents ;)

Also, my opinion on a better antagonist stays: as soon as you know the best predator/danger combinations, greed is not even a problem anymore. Build animal+danger, pump resources, get project done, remove danger. Greed, what greed? =p

Now let me try and memorize the plant tech tree symbiosis =p

edit

Just remembered another opinion...

Why keep some upgrades locked? I ask because there is no clear explanation on how to unlock them other than "try a different game style". I know what some of them are (thanks to the wiki), and I would love to actually use them, but I have no clue how to unlock them.

So, my suggestion is: either get rid of upgrade unlocks (I don't see the point), or at least give some tip on what you need to do to unlock it. For instance, since I hate war, I dismantle sacrifice altar or barracks every time ... if I need to complete them to unlock gameplay options, I should know, right?

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