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Observations/Frustrations

Anything Reus-related that doesn't fit the other forums.
RedDeadStreet
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Observations/Frustrations

Post by RedDeadStreet » Thu May 23, 2013 4:41 am

Let me start by saying, great and entertaining game!!
Very difficult and intricate design and there are so many times where I get what I think is a great game going, and it just turns to chaos after a while.

According to Steam, I have 107 hours logged so far.. That's a lot, hey I've been on summer break and full on chillaxing so don't judge me.

I was going to start out by saying what I love about this game, but I think we all know what is awesome about it.. Learning curve, replayability, interactions, all that great stuff.. It's awesome and we all know that.

There are more than a few major issues that I keep running into that are driving me dangerously close to removing Reus from my hard drive or at least putting it down for a while. I'm sure there will be a lot of "L2P" and "Ur doing it wrong" posts, and that's cool, but this is just my opinion FWIW.

1) Every game requires constant saving and re-loading.
===== I find myself having to pre-emptively save constantly in order to avoid silly project placement, silly project choices, and silliness in general.
===== Often, my first couple of projects will be related to one resource type, and then the next one will be something totally different. My Temple is all about boosting animal effectiveness, and then the next one encourages me to build minerals. Works with symbiosis? Yes, but not as well as stacking. It's frustrating to have a Fishing Docks built to bump my ocean yields, and then I keep getting Blast Furnaces over and over again instead of the logical Island Desert. For deserts, I get the animal bonus projects, then they decide I need a Bank for mineral use. So I re-load a saved game 10x to get a Circus. I get the idea, trying to promote symbiosis, but it's just not fun for me.

==== On Forest biome, I get the Granary going and upgraded, and then it wants me to build a Plantation or w/e that boosts Tuna / Marlin output when I have no Ocean squares. Reload.
==== On Swamp biome, I get my Druid going and upgraded, and then it wants me to build a Blast Furnace when I can't even put 5 Mines on the area of influence because I'm too invested in Plants because of the Druid. Reload.

2) Projects requiring biomes not conducive to where they are placed.
==== A lot of times I will get projects that don't have anything to do with my biome. Tea plant bonuses for a Swamp biome? So I have to make a Mountain and wreck my symbioses to reap the benefits?
==== Multinational wants me to build Tapirs (Forest)? So I have to somehow manage to plop some Forest on my Desert town to benefit.
==== I need 5 mines to build my Blast Furnace when the village already has a Fishing Docks and only 3 land spots? Reload until I get Apothecary.

It's just awkward, unwieldy, frustrating and making me Save and Load after every little thing I do. Hey villagers, use common sense, look how many Plant bonuses you are accruing, why go off on some weird tangent that makes completing your Great Project upgrade near impossible? It seems if I am doing great with one resource, wouldn't I try to do even better instead of going all SQUIRREL (Up reference anyone?) and switching to something else?

3) I fail a lot of Great Projects because I can't manage Greed and giants getting attacked simultaneously.
==== This is what every 120 minute game boils down to. I find myself in a spot where I go "I just want to finish this damn Castle, I don't care if I've saved and re-loaded 100 times, or I have to save and reload 100 times more, I am going to finish this Castle."
So while I'm trying to finish this one Great Project, my other 3-4 villages are pissed at me because I'm hardly paying any attention to them.

4) Greed issues
===== I understand this is an essential mechanic, and I accept it.
===== It's currently impossible for me to work on 2 Great Projects at once without causing one to inevitably fail. I simply cannot amass the 1250 Food necessary for that Castle in the time frame allowed without causing the villagers to go bonkers on the world. Do you guys want this thing done or not?
I know you can use Awe to ease the burden, but the resources that provide enough Awe do not give enough Food / Tech / Wealth to complete the Project.
===== One Great Project will fail because I am spending so much time dealing with another one. I have to build up enough resources around the next Project that comes after the failed one and reload if the villagers pick the wrong one.
In my last couple of games, I tend to migrate all of my giants from one village to the next and work on Projects as Greed allows. The issue with this is, I can't finish my Projects within the timeframe allowed because Greed is unsustainable. If I go nuts and try to amass enough resources to complete one Project, the Greed causes a snowball effect.
I wish I had a 5th, Greed management giant, whose only abilities are related to calming villages down.

4) Minor annoyance bugs.
==== This is expected because I assume there wasn't extensive beta testing, and kudos for fixing the bugs that were out there!

==== Did I say I save and reload constantly? So when I reload a saved game, if I have a Water or Forest Giant fertilizing an area in the saved file, when I reload it it is not still fertilized. So I have to wait for the cooldown to refresh.

==== Ocean Giant Aurora is very awkward and hit or miss. Save and Reload. Can we get a better way to gauge the target or area it will effect?

I guess in closing I would say the biggest issues are Greed management (or inability to manage), lack of control over where and what projects the humans choose (I get that this is part of the game, but all it does is make me spend time Saving and Loading until they get it right, and that's not fun for me), and irrelevant Great Project bonuses. I've spent hours building my Animal- and Plant-based villages up and now I have to Q and ad some Mountain squares so I can get the bonuses from the GP?

Save and Reload. Save and Reload. Save and Reload. There should be an Unlock for 1,000 Save / Loads that unlocks a Jesus resource, thanks for putting up with the hair-pulling Random Number Generator!

These are just my frustrations thus far. It's an awesome game and I definitely am getting my proverbial bang for the buck, I just wish a few mechanics were more manageable.

EatingBurger
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Re: Observations/Frustrations

Post by EatingBurger » Thu May 23, 2013 5:24 am

==== On Swamp biome, I get my Druid going and upgraded, and then it wants me to build a Blast Furnace when I can't even put 5 Mines on the area of influence because I'm too invested in Plants because of the Druid. Reload.
You can just muck bomb improvements that don't align with Your divine plan.
==== A lot of times I will get projects that don't have anything to do with my biome. Tea plant bonuses for a Swamp biome? So I have to make a Mountain and wreck my symbioses to reap the benefits?
You can make 1-3 square mountains by just cancelling the animation early!
I find myself in a spot where I go "I just want to finish this damn Castle, I don't care if I've saved and re-loaded 100 times, or I have to save and reload 100 times more, I am going to finish this Castle."
The villages tab gives you some pretty easy info on which villages are growing in greed! Also, pause! Pause! Pause!
One Great Project will fail because I am spending so much time dealing with another one. I have to build up enough resources around the next Project that comes after the failed one and reload if the villagers pick the wrong one.
I dunno, I've had tonnes of great projects fail. Hasn't seemed to matter much?

What I initially found to be the most annoying is when a great project starts, 'cause the city will often get a huge boost, causing a really stealthy greed spiral.
Ocean Giant Aurora is very awkward and hit or miss. Save and Reload. Can we get a better way to gauge the target or area it will effect?
Aurora fires in a straight line around the planet until it hits a giant. The description of the ability isn't very good.

Also, its stacking characteristic is hilarious. Look at that giant gooooo

RedDeadStreet
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Re: Observations/Frustrations

Post by RedDeadStreet » Thu May 23, 2013 5:44 am

Good tips all around, thanks!

Muck bombing projects just makes them eat up more clock, so I find it more reliable to simply reload the most recent save I have. It also angers the villagers and adds some greed to their meter.

The mountain tip is useful, I will have to try that!

I pause constantly, planning my next moves. I use the nomad-giant strategy to work on one project at a time, but I still have trouble getting the boosts I need to complete without it spiraling out of control.
You raise a good point with the project bonuses that make a village go crazy. If I get +100/+75 for each 1st/2nd of one type, my village goes insane instantly and there's nothing I can do. It's like 1,000x punishment for 10x bonus.

Aurora is difficult to aim and takes some getting used to. It just needs a better targeting reticule to avoid confusion. Pretty awesome when it gets leveled up and you see those tiny little giant legs go Flash mode!

EatingBurger
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Re: Observations/Frustrations

Post by EatingBurger » Thu May 23, 2013 5:58 am

RedDeadStreet wrote:Muck bombing projects just makes them eat up more clock

If I get +100/+75 for each 1st/2nd of one type, my village goes insane instantly and there's nothing I can do.
Well, I mean, there is something you can do. You can:
*Destroy symbioses with attacks, thereby reducing output
*Destroy the improvement
*Add HEAPS of danger (ugh)

I mean, yeah, destroying the improvement isn't perfectly optimal, but then again, attempting a perfectly optimal 120 minute game seems almost, uh

impossible

So I'm not sure if its worth it? I've managed to get 8000 point game swamp-bombin' every thing I felt like, using only one tactical save/load, and I wasn't even going at it hardcore.

RedDeadStreet
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Re: Observations/Frustrations

Post by RedDeadStreet » Thu May 23, 2013 6:21 am

I think that's my problem, achieving a 100% optimal 120 minute Era game.

So to get into Reus, I have to accept that there will be failures and disappointments in every game, and I just have to work around them.
Achieving 100% optimization through planning is not possible, you have to adapt and re-configure your initial setup to meet the needs of what comes your way.

Szei
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Re: Observations/Frustrations

Post by Szei » Thu May 23, 2013 8:01 am

If you care only about your score or are competing with other people I agree it can be frustrating. However, surprisingly I've found that I haven't done much saving and reloading when it comes to Reus. I enjoy building and watching my world thrive or succumb to chaos more than the actual score. Obviously I am shooting to make my world as prosperous as possible, but at the end of the day it's the journey for me. For this reason I don't save to try to artificially get the optimal projects. That sounds like a really boring way to play.

Note that this is from a compulsive saver when it comes to most games =P I saved over 1000 times in Dragon Age: Origins. When a game shows how long you've played and I divide by my saves I find that I usually save once a minute. However in Reus I don't have that problem and it's liberating! I do understand that kind of compulsion though so I know where you're coming from and it's unfortunate =(

EDIT: ah I saw your most recent post and see that you agree. Playing Reus "optimally" is the problem and takes a lot of the fun out of it. I just try to make the best of what the humans throw at me instead of "manipulating time" (saves).

DaveMongoose
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Re: Observations/Frustrations

Post by DaveMongoose » Thu May 23, 2013 2:24 pm

I've found that danger is much more effective than awe in tempering greed, and there are some excellent symbioses that boost it and another resource (wolves + mines = extra danger and wealth, javelinas + more javelinas = extra food and danger). It does require a bit of attention to keep a village at the mid-level danger zone because the thresholds increase as the village grows, but the predator and hunt aspects can add extra points quickly.

I've not actually used the save/load system yet, lol.

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JInFi
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Re: Observations/Frustrations

Post by JInFi » Thu May 23, 2013 2:28 pm

ironically, the common mindset in beta was that Awe was the key fundamental to fast boosting of prosperity, and that danger is unmanageable and ineffecient in the long run lol

i think the cause behind this is the types of projects and the types of material we had access to in the beta was slightly varying. i still tend to lean towards Awe, but the introduction of many high-value danger-emitting creatures have slightly tipped the favor in the direction of danger. i still need to check this out.

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TheGodfather
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Re: Observations/Frustrations

Post by TheGodfather » Thu May 23, 2013 5:33 pm

I think that Reus was not designed to achieve 100% perfection. Adriaan said that once with the projects. Humans used to build a project that made the most "sense". So if you started a swamp village with peppermint (+7 Tech), a village would probably start the Druid challenge with the Herbalist specialization (+15 Tech for every plant). But that way, the game was too predictable, so it was changed to randomness. And I personally think it is the way to go. If you would be able to control the humans and their development, the game wouldn't be fun to play for long.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is this: 100% perfection in Reus isn't really possible due to the free will of the Reus-humanity. So, you try to make the most out of what you are given :-)

Xain
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Re: Observations/Frustrations

Post by Xain » Fri May 24, 2013 2:40 am

I feel like a fool for asking, but you do know that you can replace a source with another one right? So you can change the village's focus without having to reload? And you know that if you fail a project they'll just start it again after like 3min or so?

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